What If? So What?

What if You Could Be as Customer Obsessed as a Retailer? An Interview With James Hannis, Chief Architect Cardinal Health

• Perficient, Inc. • Episode 46

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 In this episode of "What If? So What?" host Jim Hertzfeld sits down with James Hannis, the visionary chief architect at Cardinal Health. With a legacy in retail, James brings a unique perspective to the transformation of patient care through digital innovation. Dive into a discussion about the fusion of healthcare and retail strategies, the personalization of patient care, and the speed of service delivery that today's healthcare consumers expect. 

Episode Highlights:  

  • James describes his background in retail and how it shapes his approach at Cardinal Health 
  • The complexity of catering to diverse healthcare personas and ensuring tailored experiences 
  • The challenge of applying retail marketing strategies within the privacy-sensitive healthcare industry 
  • Insights on leveraging speed and agility to improve customer engagement in a B2B healthcare setting
  • The evolution of Cardinal Health's digital platforms to meet the ever-changing landscape of healthcare distribution and patient interaction  


Timestamps:  
0:58 – Introducing James Hannis and Cardinal Health 
2:28 – The shift toward personalized healthcare experiences 
4:56 – Adapting retail speed to healthcare delivery 
6:39 – Overcoming privacy and tech hurdles in health personalization 
8:38 – James's advice for embracing digital speed in traditional businesses

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James Hannis:

You know, from a marketing, it's not a lead anymore, it's a hook. So if you can get them hooked, it says, okay, that's the service that's going to enable me to make an informed decision. Start simple, versus trying to look at the big, full gamut and then, as the uniqueness of whatever the customer experiences for that industry, then start adding on the Legos which you know I've talked about to get that NSP to market.

Jim Hertzfeld:

Welcome to what If so what, the podcast where we explore what's possible with digital and discover how to make it real in your business. I'm your host, jim Hertzfeld, and we get shit done by asking digital leaders the right questions what, if so what? And, most importantly now, what? So I'm really excited to be here today. We're live, we're in person for the first time, and with James Hannitz of Cardinal Health. Thank you so much for joining us here. Tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do at Cardinal Health, especially for the folks who may not know what Cardinal Health is.

James Hannis:

I am the chief architect for Cardinal Health, covering primarily the customer engagement and corporate solutions. Cardinal is very much in the full spectrum of healthcare, and so there's a lot more to it than just what one or two people can do. So I've got four or five other peers that work in architecture as well for their chief areas. In short, cardinal is a pharmaceutical distribution, it's medical product distribution and there's a bunch of other services that are offered, depending on their part of health. I've been with Cardinal, for I'll be coming up to my ninth year. The focus prior to that was in retail, and that was why I was brought into Cardinal to sort of bring that retail and that customer engagement thinking versus the inside out being a distribution company.

Jim Hertzfeld:

Well, that's the part that really is interesting to me about. You know your role here at Cardinal, but you know you used to do a lot of years in retail, so how did that prepare you for what you're doing today at Cardinal?

James Hannis:

I think at Cardinal, as health is sort of changing from more hospital more at the doctor. It's becoming more to the person, to the patient, to the caregiver, and so the experiences that you're looking at in terms of your buying power, your knowledge how am I getting informed? What can I do for self-service? That's becoming a lot what Cardinal wants to be, as they try to get to the full spectrum of what their customers would be looking for, and so, instead of being distribution, how can we empower all of the different personas of healthcare?

Jim Hertzfeld:

I think we were talking earlier today and you said something like I think the number was something like 600 permutations of business, of buyer type of channel. I mean it gets a little complicated.

James Hannis:

It's definitely not dull, and what's nice is each one of those has a different experience, so it's not cookie cutter either way through any one of those personas.

Jim Hertzfeld:

The thing I've always thought was funny about healthcare we hear about personalization all the time. I mean, it doesn't get more personal than healthcare. So to your point about you're reaching the patient, the caregiver, the provider, the pharmacist right A lot of folks involved in our wellbeing, yeah, yeah. So what's really fascinating to me in this story is Cardinal, this acknowledgement that we have to be customer focused. We work with a lot of, I would say, traditional companies and you guys have been around for a while, but the bulk's needed, so that's very traditional, I think.

Jim Hertzfeld:

A lot of traditional companies brick and mortar manufacturing companies that are making and selling and moving things. I'm just gonna go off on a tangent here. Lloyd Dobler from Say Anything, one of my favorite movies, said I don't wanna buy anything processed or sold, sell anything processed or bought, or buy anything processed or sold Anyway, we can cut that out later but a lot of traditional companies out there who have hired retail experts like yourselves. You unlock this mystery capability. What do you think those customers are really or those organizations are really looking for from this retail perspective? Like when you really break it down, what do they think they're looking for?

James Hannis:

Well, I think the first thing would be really understanding the trends, what the customer's looking for. Well, I think the first thing would be really understanding the trends, what the customer's looking for. In a retail, you're constantly looking at on a seasonal basis Every six months or not even within every six months, it's seasonal what am I doing for back to school, what am I doing for holiday? What am I doing for spring break or even holidays in terms of Easter dresses, since we just had this past weekend? The speed is what people are looking for. The empowerment then to the customer to get that info, because if you miss the season, as in retail, it really has a huge impact. So how can you apply that? And then sort of the buying habits. Most people are used to doing Christmas shopping on major retailers. They want that exact same experience with, whether CPG or even with health. An acute buyer has the same habits, the same expectations, the same empowerment that they would expect if they were doing their own holiday shopping.

Jim Hertzfeld:

Yeah, yeah, at the individual basis.

James Hannis:

At the individual basis. Yes, yeah.

Jim Hertzfeld:

Essentially, they have their preferences. They have preferences, they have their own pressures. The clock is ticking, like you said. That's interesting. You know Easter break, spring break. I don't know Cinco de Mayo. I mean spring break. I don't know Cinco de Mayo. I mean, you know, back to school and if you're not available for these buyers, then they'll find someone who is and they may not come back.

James Hannis:

And that's the big thing too is even, as I think you see, the disruption in retail there's. So many digital fronts have gone down, but the purpose of the store is less critical versus the people being able to empower it on the website before they actually get to the store, if there is one within their vicinity.

Jim Hertzfeld:

I think Walmart once called stores like forward deployed fulfillment centers. Yeah, Right, which was? I don't know if you've heard that term. I may have. I may have gotten that wrong, but I thought that, yeah, Rethinking what is the purpose of a store? What's the purpose of the point of sale system? It's not. Is it to take your cash? Is it to run the inventory in the store? Right, I mean, these are different ways of looking at things that you guys and I think you're bringing that in to Cardinal.

James Hannis:

Yeah, the many DCs with the Walmart stuff, but at the same time, we don't live in the 17 distribution centers. It's getting into the house. They expect it the same day, and what Cardinal offers in terms of fulfilling our acute customers or the hospitals and you know, our pharmacies is the exact same expectations of what they're looking for for their home.

Jim Hertzfeld:

That's great. You guys have fully embraced and I've seen that, which is really cool. What are some of those challenges that you're facing as a you know, traditional business and highly regulated, very B2B focused. But what are you, what are some of the hurdles you think you guys are getting over to make that happen?

James Hannis:

Well, I think some of the habits from a customer experience would fall into what I can track. And so to be able to say, I understand what you're looking for, that's a no-no. Whether you've got a health issue, I can't track that. I would love to be able to promote and say, hey, you're looking for that's a no-no. Whether you've got a health issue, I can't track that. I would love to be able to promote and say, hey, you're an Ohio State fan, I'm going to send you some red sweaters. Or you're a Michigan guy, I'm going to send you and get you some blue sweaters.

James Hannis:

With a health condition, you can't start looking into that. And then, when you start looking at the tech stack in terms of the number of people that actually look at that whether we're looking at services of your doctor validation, your insurance validation how much do you store the records? Because it's all health, so you've got to store it. But you can't store and look at it, versus in a retail, you're going hey, it's seasonal, how do we do from Easter, from this year to Easter to last year? Or did Easter dresses look good, or do we need to change the color?

James Hannis:

We still have some of those attributes as well, but the ability to not track the specifics of the person and so we say, okay, well, that's patient, we'll look at it at a hospital. If you were to look at who's in the hospital that could be buying, it could be the pharmacist, it could be a surgeon, it could be just a physician itself, it could be just the medical products person that needs to refill surgical gowns, latex, gloves, stuff like that. There are so many people. So when you look at your local hospital, who's the person on the other side of the screen? Can you actually get to the personalized experience that they're looking for when you're not able to track within the four walls of the hospital? Yeah, or influence them.

Jim Hertzfeld:

You're not going to haunt their Instagram for the next three days because they abandoned the cart right Exactly. Yeah, well, that's interesting, that's great. I love, I love that perspective and I think you guys are doing an amazing job. What can the listeners, what can people listening to this podcast? You know they're. They have no retail experience. They haven't been down that road. You know they. They don't have the perspective. What's advice you would give to somebody who's thinking about the same kinds of challenges?

James Hannis:

I would look at the speed. So how can you actually get to speed? That's what the customers expect. And so if you look at, how can I deploy something that gets in front of the customer, whoever the person on the other side of the screen is, people still look for product, whether it's a tangible or a service. What's the info? What's available? How can I search for it? Those are simple things.

James Hannis:

But if you could get that out there, you get connection from a marketing. It's not a lead anymore, it's a hook. So if you can get them hooked, it says, okay, that's the service. That's going to enable me to make an informed decision. Start simple, versus trying to look at the big, the full gamut, and then, as the uniqueness of whatever the customer experience is for that industry, then start adding on the Legos which I've talked about, to get that in a speed to market, but not wait for everything. But then it also enables you to be able to swap the Legos out as well, so it's not a big overhaul three, four, five years down the line as well, right, paint it into a corner, Exactly.

Jim Hertzfeld:

No, that's great. Speed is everything. Time kills all deals.

James Hannis:

Yeah Well you just don't want them to lose it. They will find another provider for whatever services that they're looking for, so you've got to be able to be quick.

Jim Hertzfeld:

That's great. Well, speaking of quick, I think we've reached our time here. I really appreciate doing this. Glad we could do it live. Oh yeah, it's a beautiful location, great table, beautiful Dublin, ohio. I'll come back for more.

James Hannis:

Thanks, james, I appreciate you stopping by and saying hi, take it easy. You've been listening to what? If so, what? A digital strategy podcast from Proficient with Jim Hertzfeld. We want to thank our Proicient colleagues jd norman and rick bauer for our music. Subscribe to the podcast and don't miss a single episode. You can find this season, along with show notes, at proficientcom. Thanks for listening.

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